Dec 2, 2012 7:00am PST
organizations, it's civil rights organizations, the labor movement, it's evangelicals, parts of the business community. there will be immigration reform in 2013 and the president will be forced to sign something that gets through congress whether he wants to or not. it's clear he does want to. >> it appears he wants to. the dream act, here we are in lame duck again, lame duck in 2010 was the great exciting moment for progressives. a thousand things that hadn't happened pineally happened. no particular conversation about another dream act again. >> let's keep in mind. i'm not as optimistic about the future of ledge indication as you. in the context of the immigration problem, immigration policy problem, let's say, in the united states, dreamers and the dream act is symbolic. it aekts a lot of people. it's symbolic in a universe where we have 10 million or 11 million or however many in the shadows. we have 141,000 visas a year. what the hell is that? >> it's that history, right? >> it is that history. >> it's bur okay tra advertised this kind of stuff. it's not a solution of expand the number.